噚晚睇電視，講到澳門在回歸十年的得與失....
大口仔相信，總的來說澳門人還是得多於失吧？政府相對的雷厲風行，開放賭權使人均收入大升，甚至超越新加坡及香港，代價是澳門人除了房地產及賭業外，市民對其他行業都提不起興趣，原因好簡單，因為無需要。
賭王話，一個男人做荷官搵萬八，娶個老婆又做荷官又搵萬八，然後可以買車買樓養洋狗，父母叫仔女生性讀書，仔女反問讀書有乜用？
置富有後果，但一萬年太久，只爭朝夕，還是富了再算吧！身為香港人，您羨慕嘛？
大口仔對此無立場，但極度期望香港可以放下無止境的政治內鬥，雷厲風行地去為香港做應該做的事。
試想想，如果這十年不是香港人在內鬥，西九文娛藝術區、遊輪碼頭、港珠澳大橋、廣深港鐵路、第三條機場跑道、十號貨櫃碼頭都一一上馬了，今日的香港還是今日的香港嗎？
咱們當然可以放眼中國，但始終根在香港，無人想香港衰的....香港加油！
2009年7月12日星期日
澳門的十年
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47 則留言:
之前你咪話好想買返金錢之王ga, 我今日係旺角見到有再版, 你可以去睇睇
by 米高
坦白講, d 議員真係累死香港!錢就識個個月袋, 所有大項目就响到拖, 目的找政治著數...攪到香港呢＋年大落後, 樣樣上唔到馬!慘...
D
米高,
多謝你話俾我知....但請問在哪間書店有售呢？
最好分清楚是財團影響(e.g.+x/貨柜)、政府無能還是議會阻力(記住政府是有足夠票的)
西九文娛藝術區係真係會係文娛藝術區，為什麼作為一個香港人的我完全不會相信呢個政府？如果政府真的有心做文娛藝術，為什麼"大哥"要將D珍藏捐去新加坡？小弟並不是"大哥"的fans，但他作為一個國際知名的人士，為什麼作為國際城市的香港高官，沒有一個去保護這些珍藏？
知唔知邊間係開益書店, 樓上鋪黎, 我今日星期日去, 仲見到有得賣, 我自己都買左本~
by 米高
以而家香港人既心態,想競爭? 好難囉. 食埋d老本,等俾人食喇.
我不讚成近年的政治內鬥是壞事，相反我應為是有益於將來的普選，政治內鬥使中央知道非民選政府是管不了香港，因特首的選票仍民選議員之零頭，認受性太低，而今天信報社論寫得很對：立法會的天職就是監察政府，為何要議員就不合民情的議案于以和諧妥協？一味咐和政府的議員才是失職。其實政治內鬥的成因正是香港政治結構之不合理，我認為現在是向正確的方向走，最好就給中央一些領悟，讓中南海体會到發達社會與獨裁政制不能共存，這樣香港的角色將再於歷史留名！
要經濟停滯不前..
定係要普選....
雖然不是一定兩者不能並全..
但二選一...
我相信大部份人都係想改善經濟生活....
好失望香港果班議員淨係識講普選...
(因為呢班人爭取到普選...就會是政治得益者)
對香港經濟發展一無建樹...
特別係班社民連...爭取到低下階層支持...
叫政府不停派錢...永遠都唔會滿足...
政府派十蚊....又話唔了解民情..要廿蚊先夠....
如果呢班議員...諗多d 點樣攪好經濟..
好過成日叫口號..
乜q 都"苦主大聯盟"..搵政府著數!
當然，經濟是重要且大家都關注的範疇，但民主自由普選卻不能被經濟所犧牲，我不認為民主和經濟是對立的，現在經濟停滯不前，不是議員的問題，因為立法會在香港政治上根本是極少權力，其實經濟停滯不前正是政府無能的表徵，所以更要由人民掌權更要有普選！這也是同幾年後的北京講的
其實不是什麼內鬥, 不內鬥. 主要是官員無能. 大部份項目都是只求解炎眉, 沒有長遠目標, 更見解奇差. 先會有所為內鬥出現.
Chupedia 所言甚是, 經濟與民主相輔相成, 並不對立. 回歸十二年來經濟停滯不前, 主要是政府無能, 倒行逆施, 不受制衡; 官商勾結, 政策向商人傾斜; 任人唯親, 排斥異己, 親疏有別, 等等.
本人第一次發言
對 Chupedia 所言深表認同
嘿!政府d錢不幫助弱勢社群，都係比晒公務員，你有得分咩!
"回歸十二年來經濟停滯不前, 主要是政府無能, 倒行逆施, 不受制衡; 官商勾結, 政策向商人傾斜; 任人唯親, 排斥異己, 親疏有別, 等等.".
O^O...
Yes, Hong Kong government has many problems. There are, however, some good policies and developments. When I traveled to other countries (even the ones with long history of democracy), I cannot stop myself from appreciating the quality of the public services in Hong Kong. I think Hong Kong has enough criticism. What is lacking in Hong Kong is appreciation and encouragment.
我係澳門人,我可以好肯定咁話你知,澳門大部份人都唔認同政府.
係澳門,貪污,官商勾結,外勞,青少年等問題非常嚴重,經濟成果只集中係小數人手中,例如何狗華同吹水安既家族.
而且澳門市場細,傳媒都要依賴政府既資助先可以生存,造成連紀實既傳媒都無....
你地上吓澳門既討論區就會知道澳門既民怨係幾大.
http://forum.cyberctm.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3
d議員只係曉得幫中環d呀伯去攞小販licence, 大政策嘅貢獻就冇. 甘姓議員仲口出狂言, 問企响佢側近的食環職員佢哋巡查前會唔會預先通知個d小販...如果呢類質素議員坐滿議會, 香港嘅前途等於零...我俾嘅稅亦去咗大海!
民主係好...但一樣出到Bush呢類殺人冇數, 拒絕環保嘅總统! 做人嘅權利都係一樣冇保障! 請醒醒吧!
D
就是因為有民主，美國人就可以找個與Bush完全不一樣的總統，但現今的港澳，我地就無權找個有能之士來代替曾何二人
我可以說，我們已給了十幾年機會于小圈子選舉，已不能再相信它，行之無效該變之
Chupedia,
小圈子選舉往往是物以類聚, 難以自我革新.
2樓匿名兄:香港議員算小事啦!有機會留意下帝國加州既州議員仲過癮!
以前有個加州州立(CSU)既朋友向我抱怨話州大畀政府既"新政策"搞到嚴重衰落我都未明佢講乜,到近來見到個bill,有州議員曰既然加大(UC)受政府錢,就應該畀佢班議員指手劃腳!仲要唔係吹幾句而係真係動議收回UC自主權,以後政府可以對收生學費每事問!若然通過UC從此衰矣(最搞笑既係佢話UC係帝國公立大學少數政府唔插得手既公立大學,佢又唔講正係因為政府唔可以指手劃腳,UC係帝國公立大學中的皇者:Berkeley實力凌駕所有公立大學,就算SF/LA亦比絕大多數畀政府"管理"的大學強得多);
當然咁仲算"小事",年年聽到加州政府話冇飯開亦正係E班議員既大作!
大部份議員只係蛀米大蟲, 浪廢香港...
就算宜家俾你選, 一個都選唔落手...
民主係好, 但係蜀中冇大將, 沽名釣譽者反而大把...再講obama都未見到有物真本領...除咗得把口外...待時間證明吧!
D
都係個句：民主政制唔一定找來最好的管治者，但卻能避免壞的管治者長期執政。小圈子政制卻只會長期選出對小圈子有益處的管治者，當小圈子的利益跟大眾有沖突時，大眾的利益就永遠被犧牲！
回一回若缺齋老人，加州人會否因為那班議員而放棄民主，選擇找個小圈子來為他們重選班議員？民主底下確實有謊唐事，但獨裁或小圈子的謊唐事肯定更多更大獲
Bush連續當了8年總統了...民主在一個平均国民質素低的地方一樣可以死好多人...就算世界第一先進嘅美国都係一樣!
如果連別人生命都輕視的政府, 又有咩資格話自己係民主国家?!
D
Chupedia 提到'民主底下確實有荒唐事，但獨裁或小圈子的荒唐事肯定更多更大鑊", 本人對此絕對贊同.
死咗咁多人都叫做荒唐事, 真係針刺到肉不悉痛! 亦有d不仁...
D
Can democracy stop the US from invading other countries?
Can democracy stop the US from NOT taking any action to stop the spread of H!N! from the country?
The history of human beings tells us that it is more likely for a non-democratic country to invade other countries and kill massively.
How long is the history of democratic country as compared with a non-democratic country, say China? Is it fare of the remark?
How many small and large scale wars started by US? US will invade others to protect her own interest whenever needed.
How many people killed by US in her short history of being a democratic America?
有趣
唔想講的都要我講出來：
民革： 死兩百萬人以上(多數是知識分子，中產)
大躍進：死兩千萬人以上(餓死)
六四： 死3000人以上(被士兵殺死)
還未計官員惡行做成的死傷，越戰等！
可以講，中國當政數十年所做的平民死傷比美國建國兩百多年所做的，跑贏十條街！
中美分別是：
中國主力對付自已人，美國主力對付別人
中國出事後封鎖媒體，美國出事後四處揚
雖然中國近年好似有改善，但可惜它不能保證不會重蹈覆轍，因為中國還是小數人獨裁的政制！
不要信民主是完美，但更不要天真得信獨裁者能永遠替你謀幸福！
記住世上無完美，只有比較好和比較差！
美國是差是霸度，但民主自由卻吸引世界國家的人移民！
中國政制咁"好"，你試下叫個鬼佬移民到中國？肯定比個鬼佬 f f 聲！大量中國人移民到美國就肯定係事實！
移民的人就用腳話你知優勢誰屬！不爭的事實！
Chupedia,
你說出了我對中共政權的觀感
If you feel uncomfortable with the systems in HK and China, you are better go overseas now ~~~ HK is not a good place for you.
Btw, human lifes are the same in all nations, no matter you are black, white or yellow.
Many ppl go to America, while more choose to stay.
Alright. Boss!
Thanks for you recommendations.
You are the winner. I have nothing to say.
I have something to say. If one can choose, one would more likely go to live and stay in the U.S. or other democratic countries than in non-democratic ones. Few people, if any, who lived in democratic countries would choose to live in non-democratic countries.
因為我們居住在香港故此我們要同意庸官治港 ? 不可以批評 ?
1. Democracy is not the only way to provide people with a good life. Please check the country-level happiness index.
2. People wants to live in some advanced western countries because of different reasons. People may not want to live in a poor and politically unstable countries even the people there can vote for their leaders (for example, the recent case of Kenya)
3. Freedom of speech/media is sometimes more effective than election in protecting the interests of people.
1. Please provide an alternative way to Democracy which can ensure people with a good life. Happiness index is also not an indicator of good life.
2. I agree that people have many considerations on migration not only on voting rights.
3. Correct. Freedom of speech / media definitely better protect the interest of people, and statistics are also shown having freedom of speech is pointing to Democracy.
Finally, not talking Kenya, not talking US, not talking China, with the own situation of Hong Kong, it is not able to be ruled if no Democracy, unless China flood their immigrations to Hong Kong, and making new immigrations to be majority population in HK. I hope that will not happen.
Chupedia
Maybe you are living in your own parallel history and planet which is very different from our true earth.
Why people always believe the lies of Chai Lin that 3000+ persons were killed in 6/4?
In Cultural revolution, it is also not the truth that most of the dead were middle-class and educated people. Most of the dead were poor people who died in the fighting with each other.
Finally, I have to admit that I do have your intelligence to blame the China official for the Vietnam War.
難道你愚蠢到相信北京政府———六四事件無流血？
不需要活在平衡宇宙，只需要活在中共管治下，你就已經會有和世界其他人不同的近代史！
大口仔，
I am really sorry for causing the troubles in your blog! This will be my last reply on this topic.
Chupedia,
Shame on the 'democracy' leaders in 64 who sent the students/citizens to death as their step-stone to US. They were not there that night, they said 'I heard that ...'. But the other who were really on the street that night said yes lot of people was killed but the number was far below what Chai Ling claimed.
Chai Ling did the same thing as 熱比婭，who showed the western media a photo of 湖北石首 to claim it's peaceful action in 新疆. It is clear that 謊言是對死者的侮辱.
I really doubt whether you are in Beijing or not in year 1989. I was there as a high school student. My teacher, a real democrats who leaded us to the square, asked us to leave on June 1st-2rd. The other leaders argued with her that they needed blood for a 'better new China' and blamed her activities. But my teacher said, 'I am a teacher first, then a democrat. If it does needs blood, it should be our blood instead of the students'.' And, from all the unofficial information I collected from my friends, classmates, and ..., the death could not be more than 1K.
BTW, you did not experience Cultural revolution by yourself also? You percentage number of middle-class and educated death comes from your own imaginations or just piece of words on the web? My grandparents and my parents are all highly-educated people, they did suffer a lot in that 10-yrs. But most of their friends with the similar background as them were still alive at the end of the 10-yrs during which they saw lots of ordinary people (workers, peasants, and citizens) died in the 奪權武斗. That was how most of the people were killed in that 10-yrs.
Finally, I am still waiting for you to teach me about Vietnam War.
My suggestion is that you can post how you get these numbers on your own blog. We should not bother the blog-owner here further. Thanks for your cooperation!
就數字而言，無論一千或三千，錯的都在北京政府，出動軍隊屠殺學生，難道死一千就不可惜嗎？難道死一千就可令整件事合理化嗎？
論到柴鈴，這是北京政府轉移視線的技兩，是誰出動軍隊，是誰殺學生，是柴鈴麼？你說 Shame on the 'democracy' leaders，其實更該說Shame on Beijing Leaders, especially who order the comment of killing his people.
在這裡爭論死傷數字有意思嗎？為何死傷數字不能被確定？正是因為北京政府隱瞞真相，欺騙國民，封鎖傳媒所致！只要北京政府公佈死者名單，死傷數字就可以大白，但北京政府從來不會這樣做，連四川地震的死者名單都不敢公佈！因為只要有名單，那些死者親友看見自已的親友不在名單中，就會知道北京政府在講大話！
外國確實有人亂作證據誣蔑中國政府，我都看過那些相，確是可惡的作為，我反對之極，但為何它們的謊話有人信？只要北京政府把事情弄得透明些，開放報禁，言論自由，別人的謊話就自然守不住！但北京政府是不會這樣做的，因為它們還有很多不能見光的事！
民革，就算如你所說是死得窮人多，有分別嗎？難道死的是窮人就可令整件事合理化嗎？請不要再用轉移視線的技兩！
最後，越戰，這從來不是我想說的重點，請不要再用轉移視線的技兩！我想說的不是美越之戰，而是中越之戰，或北京所說的"对越自卫反击战"！
錯要認，血債要還，不是欺騙，愚民就能解決問題，我絕對不認為刻下推倒北京政府是好事，但不能因為這樣就要付和它，認同它的所作所為！
相反，刻下的香港政府卻是需要民主！
At last, if 大口仔 don't want these political arguments appear here, please let us know. Otherwise, I will think our discussion here may bring you traffic which also may able to increase your ads revenues for helping 苗圃行動.
I don't think I am flooding your blog, because so far we are still discussing rationally. But if these may affect your daily business, may be you have some interest on China, I understand and agree to move out.
大口仔兄，
下面的文字作為我對個人科學歷史方法的一些看法，不牽涉容易引發爭論的歷史事件本身，我考慮再三決定還是繼續發在貴地。
我既非五毛黨亦非美帝網特，對社會民主民族宗教沒有預設之絕對性觀點，祖父是歷史學家，主修歐洲近代史，做過中共頂層領袖的智囊，也住過共產黨的牛棚身體受到很大的摧殘。他留給我最大的財富就是如何去建立一個科學歷史方法，去探究和思考歷史現實問題，始終保持獨立的思維。探究和思索歷史的過程機器兩面乃至多面性，始終是痛苦和矛盾的，要做一個不被閹割的歷史學家，一定是為社會中對立的多方都不認同乃至攻擊。而越深入研究歷史，越會感覺到生命之沉重和人類之無窮盡之悲哀。我沒有祖父這樣的智慧和承擔，所以沒有如他所愿繼承他的衣缽，也許算是一種逃避吧。
================================
用謊言去對抗謊言，并不能彰顯追求民主者的道德力量。如果墮落到連基本的事實數據真相都不愿意去探究和尊重，可以一切從個人的主觀觀點出發肆意描述歷史，這樣的所謂民主者，和他們敵視的所謂獨裁者全無分別。
任何的歷史事件，就和每一個人一樣，從來不是非忠即奸那么可以被簡單臉譜化。而臉譜化亦從來不是一種正確科學的研究歷史探索未來的方法。任何人如果有了先入為主的觀點再去研究歷史，他總可以看到想要看到的歷史一面去佐證自己陶醉自己。歷史，需要的是不斷的懷疑、探知、求證，而不是坐在空調房間上上網讀一些符合自己觀點的所謂史料，然后義憤填膺吹吹水那么簡單。
我用一個簡單的例子來說明如何去思考歷史和社會問題。最近的新疆7.5悲劇，為什么國內媒體沒有大肆報道暴徒的兇殘來反擊外國所謂的人權組織，而是用懷柔的姿態來國家撫恤遇難者，也不見嚴厲追兇的報道？最簡單也最不需要用大腦思考的回答是：北京政府隱瞞真相，欺騙國民，封鎖傳媒。然后又可以把話題引導去批判獨裁政府爭取民主自由，非常好！但這樣能有助于了解思考新疆問題么？當然不能。
民族問題、再牽涉到宗教，在世界范圍都是尚且無解的難題，比如巴爾干，比如中東，比如非洲種族沖突，比如中亞。此刻如果中央電視臺高調宣傳，唯一的結果是激化民族矛盾，引發更大規模的漢維民族沖突，烏魯木齊的漢人不是已經要血債血償保衛家園了么？此時，一個同樣簡單和腦殘的回答就是：中共長期通過新疆建設兵團、又以開發大西北為借口將漢人遷入新疆，掠奪維族資源倒行逆施，為掩蓋罪惡本質，給予少數族裔升學、司法、生育等優惠政策，挑動漢族對少數民族之仇視，以轉移社會矛盾焦點以維持其獨裁統治。哈哈，是不是聽起來很有邏輯很正義很過癮？但還是同樣一個問題，過完嘴癮能有助于了解思考新疆問題么？當然還是不能。
我并非要對新疆的民族宗教沖突提出什么個人的解決方法，全世界政治家都解決不到的問題我不會去紙上談兵過嘴癮。何況慘死了那么多無辜平民，我不會如某張完全沒有良心的報紙描述四川地震那樣稱新疆事件為“天譴中共”。
思考問題，不能把民族宗教社會意識形態等等簡單地一鍋燴。所以反過來的一些說法：蘇共治下之中亞沒有種族戰爭，被美帝瓦解之后才有美帝挑逗之后的車臣戰亂；共產黨人鐵托統領巴爾干數十年平安無事，美帝瓦解南斯拉夫之后才挑逗各族殘殺并武裝克羅地亞民兵進入波黑種族滅絕塞族平民；美帝以民主名義橫行全球，美國大兵卻侵入海地民選總統府；美帝高調干涉伊朗選舉，卻不對臺灣民主選舉中的槍擊案徹查真相；美帝發展史中屠盡本地印第安族裔，比納粹屠殺猶太人有過之無不及，但從未自省悔過讓每位總統給印第安人下跪懺悔；美帝莫須有理由入侵伊拉克搶奪石油，國內又有暴力執法黑人種族騷亂；美帝制造金融危機掠奪世界財富，炒作石油糧食餓死非洲無數無辜百姓......這些把美帝取代中共作為世界邪惡根源的說法都有其存在之一定事實根據，但同樣亦可以找到一堆事實去反駁，足見屁股決定大腦。而過完嘴癮，我們離事實的距離更遠了。
是選擇繼續做一個腦殘的偏見歷史學口號黨，還是放低主觀以科學的實證態度去切實探究思考事物的內外兩面，探究真正的“道”，全在每個人一念之間。做不到歷史學家，也不要生活在自己想象的歷史空間中。
Agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
探究已發生問題，追究要負責任的當權者，在網上，在街上或報紙上叫罵一番(先澄清我不認同大紀元之做法)，對解決問題的現況或許如你所說：刻下是沒有幫助，對理解事實的真相，或許你認沒有幫助，但不聞不問卻犯下傳遞錯誤訊息于當權者的問題，給他重複犯錯之誘因。西方傳謀在報導西方政府之黑暗面時，所報導的是否全是真相？肯定不會是，但它們卻能引起公眾注意，最後民眾的壓力卻能把真相迫出來！若如你所說因為我們未掌握事實之全部或以對事情無幫助為由，我們從一開始不聞不問 (Somehow, 這可能是中華民族的特性)，或任意被當權者打壓言論自由而不出聲，這樣真理卻會因著追尋真理而永遠消失於歷史之中！更嚴重的是，這給當權者傳遞錯誤訊息，給他開了重犯的方便之門！六四正是一例，北京屠殺學生後，中國人啞口無聲，上下官員看在眼裡以為只要搬出發展經濟這擋箭牌就能犧牲少數人的利益，這埋下了刻下眾官員以經濟利益為由，向抗拒被收地的人民于以打壓，捉拿維權上訪之士，在網上發表對抗的言論就義正詞嚴地要拉要鎖，集會權被官員認為是不必要的權利等等等等……言論新聞自由之可貴在於能制衡當權者，不是在解決問題！
你認為當權者或獨裁者肆意描述歷史和民主者肆意描述歷史真是全無分別嗎？民主當權者描述歷史是會被質疑，人民不同意的話會用行動來于以抗拒，民主制令他不敢遠離事實太遠；相反獨裁者就無這忌憚，以致北京常以欺騙之法胡亂描述歷史！
民主制的好處在於人民肯定是當權者的老闆，尚方劍在人民手上！
當然中共並非全世界最差的政制，刻下當權者起碼會裝著為人民著想，但都是那句，這能持續多久？因為尚方劍在當權者手中，刻下不指向人民，卻難保……，因這劍沒有制衡它的力量！若北京真的想為人民長遠謀褔，政制改革少不了，不一定是立刻走向全民主，開動改革引擎，讓人民參與，這已是歷史上留名之舉。
當然中共並非全世界最差的政制，刻下當權者起碼會裝著為人民著想，但都是那句，這能持續多久？因為尚方劍在當權者手中，刻下不指向人民，卻難保……，因這劍沒有制衡它的力量！
I do not have a pro-Beijing stance. But it seems to me that the above argument is based on assumption and fear.
若北京真的想為人民長遠謀褔，政制改革少不了，不一定是立刻走向全民主，開動改革引擎，讓人民參與，這已是歷史上留名之舉。
Is it that simple? What kinds of problems China are facing now? Can these problems be solved by election/political reforms?
Do you know China has moved from from a centrally-planned economy to the current system? Take an example, China started its economic reform without a taxation system. What is the importance of a taxation system? It means that the government does not have money. You might think that it is so nice that the bad government do not have money. However, law and order, medical services and other social welfare requires money. Many other transitional economies encountered serious political and social upheavals when the ratio of government revenue to GDP falls below 15%. The most important thing is that a workable taxation system needs a long time (more than 10 years) to establish (it involves more than determining the tax rate. It involves also the establishment of the accounting system, monitoring and enforcement system). For a very long time, China's ratio of government revenue to GDP is around 10%. But China was able to maintain a high degree of social and political stability. Do you know how China is able to do that? It involves a series of coordinated changes in the areas of enterprises reform, social security system reform and banking reform.
Luckily, China has eventually established a workable taxation system since the the beginning of 2000s. This creates the pre-condition for many further changes and reforms (also the political reforms) in the coming few decades.
Institutional changes are very complicated. It depends on initial conditions, the existence of other supporting institutions (such as the taxation system) and human factors (ppl's experience, ideology, education, opposition from vested interests). Many transitional economies introduced the political reforms and economic reforms at the same time. I think their experiences are very valuable.
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